Fusion & Fission: Opposites Attract my Attention
Disclaimer:
Everything below is a mix of what I observed and heard during the event. The goal isn’t to pinpoint "who exactly said what," but to share (usually) an outsider's view and overall perspective on these industries. I’m not here to act as a definitive firsthand source—readers should do their own research. I hope this inspires you to attend events, explore new industries, and hear what leaders are presenting. These notes combine my observations with thoughts on how things could run smoother and how ideas connect (IMO). I’m not an expert, you know? Just hanging out in the room with them. Enjoy!Topics: Fusion Energy, Fission Energy, Energy Grids, Investments
Do you know the difference between fusion and fission? I think I do. :) Fusion = SUN.IF.O. right? just rearrange it. I NEED TO COPYRIGHT THAT BTW. Going in the glossary - That’s cause lately I’m a lot of events about energy. But don’t worry - hardly anyone knows the difference, except energy experts/chemists/smart people - etc. but there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. And one I’m kinda a huge fan of - the other, i’m like… uhhhh??? um… hm. well. idk enough - but I think I liek the other better. AND TODAY - there are two events - each one hour - each about each topic!!! So, let’s see if they reinforce or sway my opinions. I love to learn more and see how it turns out.
Why Attend: Fusion and Fission are both strategies to create energy. Now that energy totally in high demand, and only getting stronger - how we gonna fuel the frenzy? By creating more energy. Now… i’m a person who thinks that more energy technologies exist (or used to exist) and they were WIPED OUT!!! by some big players and companies and people about 100 years ago… though the details about the tech still exists. haha. okay… so… go spend A LOT of time on twitter. Or as me. You’ll find all of this. And as you look into it more and more, you’re liek - okay, this doesn’t sound too crazy. THen you look around the world and just put it all togetherand you’re liek - woah. hahah. woah. SO… let’s learn more about energy in the modern day. What’s going on in this world?
Overall Event Review: Venue (3/5), Food (2/5), Speaker Content (4/5), Networking (2/5), Likeliness to Return (5/5).. more below
Photo Collage & Commentary:
Notes on the Event
Nuclear in the Pacific Northwest and beyond - says the guy on the mic. He’s taking about this and works out of DC and he is local though.
THIS IS THE ONE/speech/part - (i think) MOSTLY ABOUT fission-style-of-energy.
Now he’s introducing the people
The second guy he introduces, he keeps saying “um” in his introduction and his pace changes so it seems liek literally the first time he read it aloud. Lol - this guy’s introduction. The first one he read more smoothly.
And then the third person read aloud he also stumbles on the introduction.
So, it’s interesting to hear this hahaha. It’s not fun to be introduced in a lame way - which I only think of cause recently one of our politicians got excited verbally when he was introduced well, by memorization. - idk if you guys remember that, it was a few blogs ago, but he was like, “see - now that is how you get introduced, by memorization” - haha that stood out to me.
I think a balance is okay, too, now that I think of it. But, its interesting to think of all the perspectives involved.
This guy says - can everyone hear me? No..
Then they turn on the mic and then they say “yeah”Then he reintroduces himself cause his introduction wasn’t great. But then every time he moves, it has static on the audio.
Every time he talks there is static noise.
He said they’re workign to meet target and goals for climate. Workign on electricity reliability. He worked as a nuclear engineer - but then thought policy was more fun and switched
Wore a few hats
Worked with the government
Oversaw market design. That’s where he comes with his NGO hat.
Federal and state level. There is reality - idk what he’s even saying.
As a society, as we approach the tech options, we want to see all the resources on teh grid and reach a clean energy future. Understand the appropriate innovations to be nuclear moving forward. There is a wide spread of movement at the federal and sate level.
Bipartisan. (and i’m like, uh - i think that means like - universally everyone agrees its an issue - doesn’t matter your political party)
Not just in this state, they want to have more discussion about nuclear energy - what are the appropriate discussions
- his mic is really bad and distracting and he starts talking really slowly. And everyone laughs. Cause he’s trying his best to not kick off the microphone. It’s so awkward and distracting lol
If we do move forward with nuclear generation across the usa, we shoudl do it effective, efficiently, and as safely as possible.
Now the next guy speaks - he turned the mic off when he received it and then kept taking. But he made a joke about how he’s good at doing things again and again. Like he thinks the mic is on but it’s not. He turned if off and joked that he turned if off then on again.
But it seemed he did off-on-off.
He says he sees familiar faces… (but his mic legit isn’t on) - and no one is telling him.
And hie’s just taking about his background. Workign in the department of commerce. He focuses among other things in his profolio
Advanced decisions
He also works on fusion - he said he’ll be watching from the next session as well
That’s interesting!! He is invested in both!?!?!?
One reason the department of commerce is interested in this… it’s an energy policy issue. The historical role of nuclear in the northwest, you now - it’s been a core part of our electricity window here for a long time.
Can’t give you exact years on that
Increasingly, importantly, continuously it’s important in the tri-cities. Growing by leaps and bounds, at large because of nuclear.
We’re trying to leverage some of the expertise and knowledge into advanced nuclear fuels and other areas. So, when we talk about about nuclear policy in the state of washingint, I thin it is important to keep in mind.
Clean electricity, clean energy - but also the important component of nuclear being a really important industry in the state of Washington and the growing/diversifying industry
Okay his speech makes me realize idk a lot about this industry. But that’s how i felt last time i learned about fission, too. and fusion of course. lol. and lots of this technical stuff :) and its fun to hear about though!! in general.
Now this guy does a local business - his mic also isn’t working.
They’re not for profit, it was formed in 1950’s for the purpose of serving utilities for the northwest. They have 29 public power utilities and they provide economy scale.
Develop generating resources where poorer communities and companies and people don’t want to take it on by thsemelvss
So they build and operate wind, solar, battery hydro, small hydro - best known for the nuclear energy facility with (number) of watts. idk what he said.
We’ve received several grants from teh state, department of commerce
We’ve go our fingerprints in about 40 charging stations with grants and charging there
Grants to explore microgrids
Developing a large solar project
A lot have been early utility scale deployments
Solar project was online in 2000. It is small but back then it was first of its kind.
They were so early on wind they had it shut down for environmental reasons, that tells you how early we are
I’m surprised things got more lenient? Right? More desperate for money? are more birds dying? Or were we overreacting before? idk.
We’ve been at the front of clean energy tech for decades.
What I’ll tell you is bad in 2019, we commissioned a study to look at: how do you make sure you have sufficient energy resources if you had time in the north west.
If you had resources that could be turned on when you need them to - like nuclear.
Developing new nuclear here in the state of Washington to help meet the needs here.
That launched us forward
Last partner annouced a bit partnership with local huge companies to work on making a local energy station.
The panelist are international focused, state policy, and deployment of tech - that was by design.
So, we’re hearing a lot of hype… we saw plants in Georgia, what’s going on in the industry. How different is it than before?
Thanks for that questions.
Can everyone hear me? Um. You have to go back to understand where we are now cause it really reflects what kind of moment nuclear energy is having not just in the USA, but every state is individual but its a policy discussion happening in various state legislatures.
Moving into late 2010’s we saw federal lever bipartisan interest. Advances in design, safefty, fuel, waste mitigation -
Subsequently, legislature helped to make these designs a reality
Since 2017, the divided administration is in office. We’ve seen new R&D first of a kind pilot demonstrations.
Help modernize industries to move forward with safe, affordable … (it’s hard to even keep up with him)
With trump we see new interest in nuclear energy
At the federal level, when it comes to executive orders and comes to new nuclear energy developed in the usa and internationally
Trying to build new nuclear reactors in the most efficient ways possible. But having conversations with congress too, to move forward in a what that protects peopel from cost overrun, security issues, and other financial issues. This is super important, in parallel at state government. And regulated entities.
We have a concern of if we move forward with new generation, make sure we do it in a safe way if possible - then he says, I’m not sure if we talk about this later, but wanna talk about it now?
Then he’s like uh, sure
So then he keeps taking about collaboritn with there states as well.
At the federal movement, state level, parallel movement working on supply chain, workforce, and understanding the nuclear projects are large and capital intensive. Regulated markets and entities… (idk what he’s saying)
Peopel are looking at opportunities to collaborate with other states.
Electrons don’t see state boundatries, so it’s important for states to move forward nad produce new energy.
The concentrated benefits aren’t just one area - they’re spread out. That’s hwy theres’ renewed interest - it’s an economic driver for a lot of countries.
Now let’s talk about Washington.
Director of emerging tech. What does the state look at?
He says, um, no… he’s not the director, he then mumbles and says he magically appears when he’s wanted
this Emcee doesn’t know their roles. lol. but he mentioned earlier how they were selected on purpose. so. you know. w hen you play a lot of cards, you expose your thoguhts but then you also expose when you weren’t quite prepared. takes one to know one, i mean look at these blogs hahaha. idk is this fission or fusion?
The key reasons again, for Washington - I think going back and for those of you who don’t know. Those of you maybe do know… Washington had an interesting past with nuclear. What we call the “whoops” project, the former name of energy northwest many decades ago. Sorry to bring it up
Everyone laughs. I don’t know/get it.
And I’m putting part of our past here in Washington
We’re nuclear 1.0 - the legacy, the whoops, the Washington public power supply system. Knowing that its whoops was the second largest municipal bond to fall.
We still pay for that to this day. It left a negative legacy.
So as we’re ending this nuclear 2.0, this new rennissance. It’s being driven by several factors, they tap about economic development. Let’s talk about about this new wave of advanced nuclear is helping growth in the grid cities and in the west.
We’re here to talk about fission and fusion is a big area of growth.
Everett, north Seattle, that regions. Thing like bill gates interest, it’s becoming a huge area across the state.
The other is that the tech industry in teh northwest is critical. Therefore, we are willing — idk what he says
Not just to meet our needs, but of course the broader economic engine here in the northwest.
But frankly looking where we are, to be 100% clean electricity by 2045… we’re seeing a lot of road blocks on other sources of clean energy. Wind, solar, more famous things. We have the tech, but in areas like transmission, storage, these key infrastructure and tech areas - it’s not growing as fast as we’d like.
- as we’re seeing low growth expand… an incredible amount of demand for load growth here in Washington.
Central Washington has lots of interest in data centers.
Part of that will help the high tech industry. We need to fuel our overall clean energy economy
Lots of materials are energy intensive. So, we’re in this sorta nuclear 2.0 landscape. Where the state of Washington is in a place where most everyone, I think everyone agrees we need to have this conversation.
There are lots of peopel in different places on nuclear. But the need for the conversation is objectively very neeed at this point
RiGHT? I think so. But are we talking about fission or fusion 🤣. Not sure.
Solar, we got that very very early.
You might have illuded to this, but lemme ask “why” why are going to commercialization of (idk what he said) - why go after it now? - he says to a different speaker
You might look at us and say, “we are the great experiment on this. We waled through all of this. We had the whoops of 70s’ and 80s, then we turned away from nuclear and developed solar and wind… you know, our wind project, we put a heavy focus on it operating reliably… but by the nature of wind, the lowest months we have are January, December, and august.
- hottest and lowest days are accompanied with lowest chance of wind or sun
To meet people and meet the loads when we need, we’ve found they’re not the best solutions for that.
So, our utilities are the ones that started spurring us towards exploring this .
Our study pointed out the same thing. The challenge of renewables is that when you need the loads, based on real data from here - if he builds 100 mega wats with wind, what shoudl he plug into the model to assume he has on a peak day.
Assume you had 7 of them, that’s what you’d put into the log. If you have something to operatee all the time, and it’s clean, wow that’s a home run.
That’s why it’s a part of the least cost portfolio. We felt liek we had to push forward.
As the only operators of nuclear, that’s a lot of the “why” and it drove us to get serious about moving forward.
The first time we had utilities come and fund this was 2010. We spend the better part of that decade helping new scale small reactor tech. We started working with the Utah power system.
Then in 2020 when the fed government launched the reactor demonstration program, they’ll fund half of it - we ended up with CW - with terra power and x energy - so we’ve been working on this now since 2018 but really serious since (idk what he said)
The emcee asks another question but I’m kinda zoning out - he’s liek so quiet and he’s just asking questions really lengthy. It’s like what is your question - no offense but I’m like - wiat , what? Hahah ?
One of hte challenges with new nuclear… they’re a proven tech overall, but these exact designs are new. It’s capital intensive for these first ones. We know they’re going to be expensive.
So while we have a lot of utitilities to push and move this forward, it’s a heavy lift to move ahead and take these risks for projects like this. It’s a real problem. Their structure and governenance isn’t set up for that kind of commitment.
Amerzin has a huge need for energy, but finding it expensive and difficult to meet a load with just a bunch of (idk) and batteries. THey’re looking to scale up with clean energy.
None of us are going to be okay if we can’t access our cat videos when the wind isn’t blowing and the sun isn’t shining.
yeah. my roaring kitty videos!! if they come out again. come on ROARING KITTY :)
You’re seenghtis across teh whole technology spectrum.
You’re seeing site contracts for restart plants
You’re seeing a lot of invent in new tech
Amaznis funding the pathway with cash. Its a multihindred dollar investment for hte next few years to drive it forward
multihundred? million? billion?? hundred thousand?
Fund everything to make it moving forwad
Also, a significant investment in X energy, the company we’re using - looking at key parts of the supply chain.
This is waht utility is not set up to do.
What else is unique - we’re not for profit, we serve utilities- why woudl we be doing this with amazon?
It allows us access to everything developed (idk what he said)
They want to see they’re helping pave the way for access. Tehy’re coming along, taking the early risk, taking the high capital, getting this moving and getting utilities moving in.
It is why they’re doing it, we’re doing it - and it’s a huge win for all utilities in the state of Washington.
- hahah I like how he said that. I still don’t understand it enough - but it sounds interseting maybe. You know, let’s see all the follow through.
The next speaker says, thanks for this and that - he was asked a question but I was typing.
The agreement with them and x energy and such - the product they’re train to develop, a piece is finalizing design
This is an important lesson learned from the last few built in the USA - as we see, depending not he market you’re in, theres re different models that make sense depending on your geo-graphic model. (Btw I’m needing to step away one second)
Okay - now… back:
In terms of how Ai infrastructure and data centers are effecting the new business models, its depends on your geographic model. In (idk huh) we’re worried about near term marketing constraints to get access to points of interest, where data centers are sprung up. Its imopratn that due diligence is done - as they move forward with development, make sure the appropriate load is studied to make sure when potential contengencies (idk what he said)
Let’s protect the customer when we’re trying to produce new generation within a state
This is an example of a market being responsible
If we’re in a regulated market like in the western or southeast of the usa - conscious of (idk what) - asset getting stranded, we want to make sure the appropriate due diligence is supported
Whether it’s through Appa agreement, signed off by a series of co-ops. All interesting opportunities to derisk the project moving forward to make sure we’re protecting (idk what)
With new nuclear generation —
Unproven,… no, NOT built projects, its not just hte risks but understanding where risk lies across the supply chain, construction, fuel generation, fabrication process, and also the clicensing process as well
These projects have long wait times. We need a lot of labor developed in parallel. That’s why the states are worign with the government to make the approriapite conditions as necessary.
Pn time, on budget, and make sure they’re at the most cost competitive price as well.
The mic is being so crazy and kept being wild sounding!!!
It’s so off-brand, too, that they have these water bottles here, btw for everyone to drink. The one-time use water bottles. here at this “climate hub”.
Of anywhere to get a renewable/reuseable content — you’d think they have it here. Instead they just sort hte recycling and trash hahah. Omg. But duh - 90% of trash isn’t even kept in the USA - it’s sent to other countries.
Anyway, just calling out the hypocrisy. It’d be trendsetting for them to have built htat partnership and put the money where the mouth is. but it’s hard to think of it all.. but still. shoudl be standard for this building, right? start a culture, people. 101.
Okay - how is the state looking at - um, workign with these communities um what um education means. Um those types of issues from (_____ side, and then I may turn the question after you to the other guy as well -
Thats his question style hahah, btw. Thats how this emcee is asking questions!!
reply: okay to be clear, (he mumbles) ad then says, darling… citing of nuclear is largely a federal issue. In the state of Washington our energy council also has responsibly along that. For nuclear fission, any proposed product has to run through our energy asset. And largely work with federal entities. The other entity involved… well, nuclear is complicated - not a surprise. Other entities also, our department of health - which is sorta the designated angry by the nuclear regulitaory … idk
Our departments - idk what he’s sayin…
Unwasted idk - idk what he said.
Responsibility around radioactive waste movement. A lot of different parties that around citing and probably hte key issue, again, what’s intersting about what energy northwest project is… and I think to be clear, the proposed energy/ameryon x energy project - its being proposed and signed next to another generative station. So... on land. It’s immediately adjacent to the one existing large nuclear plant that’s been here since hte 70s.
So, in terms of citing, it is a different sorta ball game. Than trying to tap about citing brand new nuclear and brand new spaces here in teh state of Washington. You know, it’s a lot of afferent opinions on that - in terms of engaging… theater key factor again I know the trip cities is a n areas used to ,you no, broadly supports the nuclear industry in general and has for decades. The (idk) some project.
It’s important to understand what’s been proposed. You know, specific community - it’s a key piece of this project in general. It’s important it’s ongoing. It’s from a different broader policy question.
Trying to sight new nuclear
The audio is super loud though. It keeps suqeeling a bit. I need to plug my ears almost.
The girl sitting next to me said something to me, like a joke, and then walked out. but idk what she said.
Then came back to get her water bottle she forgot, then left. And the mics keep squealing.
There is a proposal to increase the power capacity of the existing station.
I’m like WOAH that sounds dangerous, right??? Letting more power come out of an old energy station?
He sys its being discussed. That’s a lot of new electricity
Which I’m going to say it doesn’t alleviate the need for other spaces, it’s a first step
It’s not minor incremental, we’re talking about a lot of new energy. It’s probably lokign forward one of the key questions for this state and citizens is this discussion of if we want to see nuclear in other places nad if we’re supportive of that.
But for the near term,it’s different. Essentially growing an existing field if you will.
From a stakeholder, that’s a lot of what we do. We take this seriously. We want to make sure the communities engages.
This is home to the national lap, thousands of educated scientists, history of nuclear innovation… people who understand and are educated - they are supportive and want it. mOst of the time they’re kicking me in the rear end and saying, get it here faster.
- but we contine to tae that state wide and engaging this.
Decarbonization has changed the conversation.
Sometimes this stakeholder engagement in taking about nuclear, you remember the old animated grinch, the poor dog trying to pull the pull it up the hill.
But pretty soon it goes over the hill and then it falls down.
Decarbonization has led things to go so far so fast, certainly not us, but we’re trying to keep up.
Anyone serious about climate, truly decarbonizing, and wants to talk about science - they’re interested cause they know how it can be successful.
I had the opportunity to be part of a round table a couple of months ago. If you’d know, we’re not on track. W’ere one of the lowest developers of clean energy in the country. Even with these policies. Why are we offtrack and what do we need to do?
- I think i was at this event, taking notes there!One problem is that we have too many people in this sector that only accept what they accept to be 100% perfect solutions. Here we have this crisis, and we’re only accepting policies we think are 100% perfect, cause we don’t understand - so then we’re not making progress
We know we have to do this, we know we have to get there.
We’ve done a lot of engagement with tribes in teh areas.
What’s fascinating two me is they’re thinking about this far more comprehensive and sophisticated than many who say they’re in this - a leader said,
To us, there’s nonsuch thing as clean energy - it all has upfront impact, all has impact to land while being used, it all has waste.
As operators of solar - my panes are failing, I’m not sure what to do with them. There’s not place for me to dump or recycle them. My wind turbans, my batteries - they all have pros and cons. We have to get understanding, serious about decarbonizing hte system. Waht we think that matters to. We have to think about growth systems.
The tribes are not excited to cover their land with thousands of solar panels like any other solution.
We find them open to conversation.
— I wonder if I was at his last event!??! I feel like he looks at me like he recognizes me a little hahaha omg. But now I realize idk which one they’re tailing about - fission or fusion.
Classic. Classsiccccc hahaha
but i was thinking he seemed to know me and i’m like - no way, is that guy/speaker from the other energy event - maybe even read my blog! thats why i’d be familiar hahah.
I did a social media thing about it hardcore, cause I felt liek it was really inpactful and important for people to know more about.
so anway (if so… hello - let’s keep going.)
Cause one time recently I went to a speech about one of them and the whole time I thought it was thi— but then it was that!! Hahah omg. I wonder if I liked him at this other speech. Whatever he was talking about. It think so, but I can’t even tell now what is going on hahahaha.
I’m getting so thrown off tryin gto figure out fusion/fission suddenly and where he stands on all of this - and all this.
But… i think he stands in the REALITY of this all. lol. so, its like we can dream and hope for fusion and think these conspiracy theories - like i do. even though they may jsut be FACTS!
butstill, we have what we have and we have to work with it now - AND THEN MAKE THINGS better and greattttt :) so we will, world!!
Now there’s a girl asking a question from the crowd. Just interrupting it all! hahah.
She’s asking something about climate and geo hazards.
One guys says; one advantage is it has to be designed to be resilient to anything. When you have significant weather events, power plants dont’ get hit cause they’re designed to be resilient.
The x energy tech, one things that attracted us to this and their tech is it uses a different type of fuel form.
Tri-fuel, it’s been around a long time, they studied it well.
It’s encages with carbon graphite and it can not melt. the
Biggest worry is if it can’t say cool and melts, it’d release things into the public - but we eliminated that
Earthquakes can’t hurt us if they could, if the fuel can’t melt.
Amazon also picked X energy, like us, cause of that case.
The other guy says - vesion will move toward if the appropriate due diligence is done. As an engineer, one fo ry well said, and I don’t have much to add other than the nuclear regulatory comms
— I was typing but then had a glitch, so sorry. Hahah.
OMG this room is SO HOT in here too. This climate room has horrible cooling. 😂 This climate hub is super hot in here. Is it just me? I’m like legit it’s stuffy in here- and I love heat.
Probably it’s me. hahah from all this overthinking (but one of hte speakers on stage started the talk saying he was feeling hot/stuffy, too… so… its a few people) - but i did notice they have all their shades down which is a shame in htis amazing location and with so many visitorshaha but tehy cant keep it colollllll
the irony in this design and i mean. coudln’t there be solutoins? Idk. i think so… but the one-time-use water bottles just have me thinking they need more peopel like mein there hahah. challenign it. but, you know. blogs are plenty ;) and i want to see this succcceed and regenerative successes and solutions :)
i’m legit so excited and hopeful for a better future - even cautiously optimistic about the present… though its really a lot going on all at once. but so many broken systems are being reworked. there are better ways to do so many htings and we can do it!
Not just decarbonizing the energy grid, but also (idk what he said)
Now there’s another question - he said he wants to talk about where we are on the cutting edge of this tech.
Then what about the nuclear scare of the 1970’s and the narrative I can tell to my friends and family. What can I take away to talk to people concerned about waste?
Great question, I get that a lot -
Help them understand that everything has its waste. So teh waste of coal and natural gas has been deemed unacceptable, help them undrsdtand that
We understand nuclear very well, how to store it safely. I t’s not a tech issue at all.
We don’t have a depository in teh USA for it. But we will get there. We know how to store it in the meantime safety
We have solutions far more for that.
The other thing is that in this country, we need o spend more time tailing about recycling energy
There is a lot of energy left here - so why bury it hte way it is.
If you’ve got a battery at 80% capacity. Why throw it away, why not reuse and reporupse it. W’ere workign for federal vunding - maybe. Acompany has a viable solution to recycle and use renewable fuel. When they’re done recycling the fuel, tehy’re down to 4% - which has a much lweord year to background level. The rest is repurposed for commercial bviable purposes.
i think this is a really fair point!!!!! for sure
We know how to do this, we have the solutions - we just have to look from a scientific standpoint.
If you had to stand up to this with no shield or anything…i we store in concrete paths, they can withstand a 747 and be fine. THey’d be fine to withstand an earthquake… even if they fall over.
wow… idk like thats hard to prove and say… you now. and i still am like - dude, do we need to add more? butttt still i liked this comment and convincing. but still i’m not 100% sold on bjuilding more nuclear - butttt i get that also we need solutoins, not everything is working - and like also we have bills to pay and things to get rid of!!! ahh. its like legit complicated for sure.
so. idk the solution YET - but OF COURSE SOME THINGS LIKE USING THE BATTERIES TO THEIR FULL LIFE, like even basic lifestyle changes of obviousness for corporations and just things to use less money, electricity, waste. idk.
I just think we need HUGE solutions.
I say all the time, if I’m going to do this with my whole life, and leave my kids behind, I’d let them stand by those casts. I’d go let them hug that cast.
LOL. wow.
One key benefit is the fact they’re intended bro be built off site, brogue him by truck or rail, theta ite. But at the end of its lifetime, and the reverse its true. When you hire a module unit, it could be hypothetically left.
… he grew up with the ghost of whoops sere fos, the big sheep of a nuclear cooling tower that was there.
The small infrastructure hopefully won’t have those ghosts hanging around
Legit I laughed at that comment.
And apologies to jump in on something. It was trojan nuclear power, the portaldn - not us… but there is an important point in learning. That plant was built, operating well. The major piece of equipment had cracks.
It would have cost 25M, but it was too expensive
They were scared of nuclear - but what if we had that 11,000 megawats of clean power in this region. But we shut it down.
So, again, I think we have to pick lessons learned like that to make better decisions for the future today. Make sure we doing them from the scientific perspective.
Fusion Energy
25 expertise in energy and law. Commitment to all possible solutions energy
But the audio sounds terrible and then the other speakers are in teh back of the room being so loud in the back of the room, the previous speakers are so loud int eh bacl of the room.
even the ones I was semi fans of, i keep looking at them, like - yoooo we hear you perfectly, hush - and go over into the other roommmm - but my “looks” aren’t working/telepathing properly hahaha.
Okay - so - now they’re talking about this…
Okay - he sys it’s his first time here and he says he wants to count his lucky stars. Fusion is the power of hte sun, it’s a step forward with humanity’s relationship with energy.
whaatttt - i didn’t know this!
Lately i’m such a fangirl of hte sun.
the more I learn of it, i’m lke - what the heck, its been here all alogn - and older civilizations used to worship it - me too, at least a bit!! the sun is awesome, turns out - even more than we realized (and now were just use screens all day and don’t hardly spend much time outside or its way more inconvenient… how coincidential for pharmaseutical companies nad all their investments and diverse invesementss and portfolios and companies that profit off of us on screens. omg and meee with this website
- hahaha GO TAKE A BREAK AND GO OUTSIDE -
me too… lemme finish this tomorrow. or even the day after if i lose track of things, in a good way. I must - for the PROOF OF THIS!!!!!!!!!! :)
OKAY - back.. many days later. Cause now I’m 2.5 blogs behind. Let’s finish this!
It’s an easy comparison to just put a star on yourself…but it undersells waht your companies are doing.
Temperature, pressure, and confinentmyn time.
At a stellar scale, the pressure needed isn’t (idk what he’s saying)
Finding the combinations of these factors on earth isn’t easy.
This guy’s intro speech is hard to keep up with, with these loud guys in teh back.
and “these loud guys” are the ones who just gave the speeches a second ago - rudeeeee——-
He says- the cool thing about this, not just myself as a fusion enthusiast. Not just an academo journalist that can’t read saying it. It’s (idk_)
He said the fusion industry in general has raised more than 8B in capital since 2020. As a result of the adgnvement of the tech that makes this not only scientifically feasible, but also cconomically feasible.
It’s clear that investors must see this has icnredlbe pathways to commercialization. Let’s hear the story from the lan to the substation.
Without further ado, let’s turn to the panelists
One guy introduces himself and how he’s on the director of affaris or something. He’s a nuclear pharmacist- while he was in pharmacy school he didnt know -b the’s making radioactive materials and turning them into nuclear medicine
- yo but today I saw something talking about how dandelions are proven to cure colon cancer in like 48 hours - so let’s fact check both of these at the same times.
Some states that have too small populations to support capital expenses (idk)
He got interested cause it’s the holy grail.. hey this is pretty cool.
They needed someone who knows how to license. And not a lot do - so thats how I got involved.
I’m a unicorn and the regulatory person and I’m happy to answer those questions. But I’m not a physiscits. (I’m hungry, I wanna go get more snacks - I’ll be right back -b ut he says there are more fusion companies in the USA than any country - and there are over 20 here in teh USA… lol okay wait i’ll go in a bit). They want to put megawatts on the grid.
But we’re making kilowatts of power, that enables mobile devices - for spec, sattelites, underwater… maybe in an mergency to power a hospital . The general pricnipals are the same as my colleagues.
A guy says this mic may be safer. He’s head of communication at the energy - he’s been doing this for a long time.
They both work with particle accelerators
He used to work at the national lab at Stanford
A woman finally goes and asks the guys int eh back to stop tailking so loud int eh bac. I’m glad she did - cause they were legit loud and we’re 15 minutes into it = but they’re still talking in the back and you can hear it.
I gave them the stink eye liek 4 or 5 times - like - you guys - we can hear you perfectly - zip it! but yeah - after she talked to them they just moved into a hallway and it was still sorta easy to hear them but better.
On stage they say it’s fun and cool to see this take shape. So, we spun out of the university here, two professors workign - we even used to have a nuclear engineering department that was closed up. They were former nuclear engineering professors, one left, one stayed - nad then he liked being a professor, and now he’s part time with us.
He said, as a scientist, he loves to explain the scinent. iT was a pre-compact form. IT came out of a program where ether looked and said, they put a lot of money and resources into architecture and that device.
Now the guy talking finally is able to introduce himself - he says it’s actively being permitted as we speak. They want it here by the end of 2028. Fusion power has significant benefits to solve climate challenges we see. In the natural resources and carbon space.
We need to shift our mindset to think less about theoretical, instead how to do we scale mass deployment righ now as we scale fusion power.
Great - thank you, says the host.
Now let’s start with the big picture. One things that is exciting is that its cool. (Lemma go get some racers brb)
What is the need for fusion power - how does it fit in?
Ohhh all of the sNacks are gone?!!?!? Lame. At least I had a few.
Clearly, we dont’ have enough energy and we’re getting to the point as a society to start feeling the pain of that
Lol are we going to be like Tehran!?!?
Some of the things, the biggest polluter in the world is the US army. Al to of diesel goes into airplanes nad tanks.
You can decarbonize some of that, but mobile versions would be amazing too.
So true!!!
Physics geek is the most energy you can get per unit mass.
The universe gets it energy from stars.
On earth, the whole thing is dealing with hte nuclear force, the reasons they have the power - the nuclear versus the (idk what he said)
Thats how you get chemical energy
The nuclear force is so much stronger than the bonding force of electrons, then you can get so much more per mass.
To physics nerd, it’s the ultimate energy source. We know it’s out there, we know the physics is real. Its’ abundant in the universe
It’s just a tech problem.
But how do we harness it, build something that takes advantage of it. It’s been really hard - we’ve been workign on it. It comes down to getting it super hot and dense and keep it around for a long time. With compression and the right climate
Each has different physics tasks to those things. But what we have in common is the bigger approaches that emphasize confinement - putting big magnets around it… that turns out to be very hard to do, even when its a very diffuse plasma that’s less than thin air.
On the there ends the compression route in whatever way you want, the laser one. Shine a whole lot of lasers on a tiny target, compress it, as dense as possible - lasts a nanosecond, but you can get energy out of it.
All of us have things in between and are trying to get things that run.
Some things last an instant, we want to do it over and over. And there is some confinement to it.
He says, yes! Spot on, for us, we’r elooking for pulsing together plasma icicycle atoms, like 1000 a second over and over and over.
Practical applications - the ability to ramp up or ramp down
Lots of applications for an energy market
We’re not building water to make steam (idk what he’s talking about)
W’ere using direct electricity to capture.
Drive, take the foot off hte gas, recharge the battery. Same idea -
It’s hard to keep up with the way he talks.
He says you can do the next to any large load. … for us, its climate, using clean/reliable energy sources.
And you’re creating a power solution that is incredible small. 30% clean energy growth demand over the next 10 years. Up to 100% growth… then factoring in Ai and everything.
Having something small and dispatchable animates us. It’s what we’re looking for.
A girl im the audience suddenly interrupts - I NEED THE BIGGER PICTURE - WHERE AER WE WITH FUSION - she says she doesnt’ have a sense of if we’re getting the energy in we’re putting out
The host says - I’m glad you said that, it was my next point
He said we’re getting 4 times the energy out we’re putting in. And 2025 may be the biggest capital raise so far.
What is the biggest milestone that situates where fusion is? We’re on the right path? From your perspective or other companies?
One guy says: me first?? Your question is legit… the joke is that we’re 20 years away and always will be. So what have we done that shows we’re not there. There are intersteding things happening.
Another company is building something, when they turn it on, we see how well it works.
The other thing is that 50 companies are all trying to do this, we’re all trying to do this different ways.
No one has a slam dunk, everyone is away from the net
No one thing has changed everything for everyone
Tech has grown, ai helps… but no one knows
But one place and a place that was not built to be a pwoerplant, its not the way you want or mean to design a power plant…
We have a little ways to go. There is a lot to be excited about. We have tons of progress. There’s no sure thing.
This guy’s mic is so bad - omg and now a girls’ phone goes off. The air conditioner here is so loud too -
He says they’re making machines nd they think they can demonstrate electric with their machines by the end of this year. They’ve completed permitting processes. With zero public companies. So we can move forward security gall the work we need to put power on teh grid by 2028. Every indication in their company is that they’re meet that milestone
She interrupts agian - “I think it’s exciting - but you’re going to be using more energy than you generate.
That’s what we’re showing this year. Positive electrify from fusion
She says, ohhh okay -
He says, yeah I completely agree 75 cmopnies around the globe are trying to make it happen. The amount of investment and sophistication globally, we’ve never seen this. It brings great hope.
SO let’s move to commercialization aspects. What kind of financing do we need to get to that Eureka moment - and deployed commercial industry?
Different concepts, designs, and capital costs - where do you see the monetary pathway from now to the first commercial device planned to put into service?
How will it become nearningful to amerca and the global energy systems
One guys said they’re almost totally VC based, a little governmental funding - some he can’t talk about because of FCC rules, that kinda stuff. But for us, fi you can build a small fusion device nad its essential a particle accelerator, then you’re really entering a mass manufacturing model.
SO for us to upscale, we’re looking to find advance manufacturing. You need machinists. You can’t buy the parts off hte shelf, most you got to make. It requires a technical workforce. Its a lot of money to set up the machining systems
Dude so true!!!
There are a lot of resources in china and Russia trying to do the same thing. Whichever figures out the right recipe nad physics ,they won’t be able to crank these machines out quick enough.
We need the plasma physicist, but also how do you set this up and get these machines out in a high quality manner
G0ood point.
We often talk it’s not a physics problem, it’s a manufacturing problem to get commercial fusion power on this grid.
woahhhhh
Just an example, the machine we’re building now, it takes bout 12,000 (idk what) - each is 4ft by 4ft. We’re building about 10% of those right now here in Washington, the rest we’re sourcing all around the globe. But we know with fusion and other clean tech… once there is demonstration, commercial pathway,… the race will be on to buy up that supply chain. We saw wind, solar, EV, battery… whermanufacturing goes offshore.
Manufacting is less predictable.
So we think about that, how do we build up the fusion workforce we will need? Frankly 95% of hte roles aren’t wearing lab coats
We’re building a lot. So how do ew build out these services? We need manufacturing. All of that work to commercialize and scale.
Our longterm goal is to roll off a fusion machine off our line every single day.
We have to invest now, not 5 or 10 years from now, or we’ll lose the race.
We’re encouraging our partners to build it out, here, now.
SO, it’s moving out of the lab but there is still science to be done.
I disagree that the science is settled and on we can go to scaling. I don’t think thats true
- this other guys says lol!
Stop worign on just science and build plants? No.
But how much it will cost? That denpends on what you’re building.
Everything will cost more than if you can do it with smaller capactitors.
We’re getting clarity on things until we advance them.
The liquid metals, the blankets, the things— it all soundsnice, like what you’d put in a kids bedroom. But it’s a million degrees, it melts everything. That’s a problem for maintenance.
And so those things are really hard and we’ve honestly not put much investment into them cause we’ve focus so much on plasma physics. I think things are in a good place and we’ve got a little further to go.
Now they say, let’s zoom into the PNW. It’s clear the fusion hub has begun to emerge. What makes this a good place to build an innovative company, like yours are.
What does this city need to do as we move towards commercialization.
Well, Seattle is tech, the envornment, aerospace, all these things that fit into fusion. So, we’ve got the workforce, funding environment… all that stuff.
Spot on, and to double down, we’re in an old Boeing facility. We can hire technicians readily available. We’ve got the university nearby as a research hub. And then we’ve got interest and mandates for an energy provider.
It’s been helpful.
The guys now says he’s born and raised here, if it’s not these big companies, its other companies. It’s a place where innovation happens. The cross of innovation and environment.
Space tech and our founders all come from that approach.
Now… he says, say something nice about each other hahah. How do your companies work together and collaborate - how does this advance your cause?
He says it’s easy to say nice things bout them. First - everyone in fusion is purpose driven. We’re here cause we want to make a difference.
Unlike nuclear medicine, which you think would be the same goal - cancer patients
You have companies fighting over revenues and shares— itwawsn’t always patient focused, it was making shareholders happy.
But with this, we celabrate each other successes - whether its labs with lasers, or cool magnet systems- a win for any one fusion company validates what we’re all after
One single guy in the audience cheers big
Then they said its on lobbiyng efforts, and its easy as a citizen of the earth.
And we’re all proud of this hub. We’re kinda the cowboys? Each one of our companies are trying something different.
For fusion we’re All in it for the same needs.
There is so much clean energy need, demand, and potential. Whether any of these companies rise or fall, we want thepower as quickly as possible to solve our problems from every single day.
It’s so true in the partnership and in the policy spaces as well.
We had a bill in th e legislature in Olympia just a couple of months ago - and one of the things I admire about our state legislature, it’s bipartisan. Its unanimous. I’ve seen it in our community.
Hundreds of community members from all walks of life, they want this tech to succeed. The ethos is among our employees, leaders, peopel want it to succeed. So we celebrate each others successes.
There are definitely places we all benefit up together. Its helpful together, and a problem is that fusion and fission sound too similar
So the ability to educate stakeholders, it takes time for people to understand it. It’s something we all agree on.
A little competition is okay - game on. Let’s go. It’s a friendly competition.
Add one more thing…
Washington state is also ideal for a couple reasons:
Bipartisan support in a lot of these policies. Whether its democrats or republican - we have a lot of support in the legislature (and as a radiation person dalig with the department of health) - not every state has a pro fusion focus,.
Some are scared cause they dont’ have fusion companies
But we’re trying to make this a smart path forward, with eh right framework, to regulate it.
Folks in our state have been fantastic partners in this.
Washington is special when you talk to other states and countries,.
You don’t have to worry about the next election to think if you have policy to succeed.
Okay - let’s say you had a magic wand and got a policy to help you at state or national level, waht would it be:
First offer - one was offered to do federal with private industry, only paid predertimened amounts.
Reach without having ID share, cost share.. it’s a small program - we got 5M - 300M in funding isn’t a ton. I’d love to see that bigger.
It’s a really good way to fund it without tax payers paying the bill.
One guy. Says he has two:
Fusion - back to manufacturing, we need gov to recognize the buildout of manufacturing services. Build out workforce training for precision manufacturing.
- globally, we need interconnection plugging it into the grid
The ability to hook a power plant into a community. 8-12 years to get power onto grid for most places… but the interaconnection is a big problem.
Get and learn about the interconnection challenge - learn about it. The goals we want… how can we move the needle?
- don’t just sit around waiting to plug it in
Lol this microphone keeps sounding like someone blowing hteir noseeee
Last - wish the DOE could - idk what they said - tridium? A DT reaction? Idk what? To generate helium? We need tritium - a radioactive form of hydrogen.
Anything that’s not a nuclear warhead - but 100% of tridium is sequestered by gov for weapons. Canadians use a fission power plant with a waste stream - but they sell their waste for 35k/gram to the USA - without it the devices don’t work.
SO I’d like a domestic supply of tritium
How can someone who is excited about it and believes in it, but not in the industry, how can they make a difference? What woudl you tell someone in the room to help?
Um, well first, 7/10 people don’t understand what it is - - so getting the word out.
We usually avoid words like nuclear cause it has a bad connotation - for Chernobyl, the three mile island… fusion is a nuclear process - completely different risk. Combining.
If our device fails, a machine runs off. there is no runaway out of control.
It’s why we’re being regulated completely different.
What would be really helpful is learning all you can, helping get the word out.
People anti-nuclear shoudl be pro fusion. It can provide more - there is more energy in hydrogen than uranium
Also it’s the biggest waste product from a fission power source and turn it into reusable. For me, it’d be learning and sharing.
Media and communication - there’s an adueince so excited. Hyperbolically shouting from roofs. Then some there like - you’ve been saying this forever, when is it going to be here?
And the truth is somewhere in between. It’s not a silver bullet, not holy grail . I hope there is a revolution. I wish people could be excited, and then be properly excited. Not feeling disappointment.
And less people who can roll their eyes.
Want a more rational in the middle convo more often.
… I had to do something
He said - when you first develop a vaccine you need a lot of money.
But our models suggest we are beyond if not competitive (idk what he’s tailking about)
For our company, we have crawl/walk/run. Most are doing reactions that doesn’t deal with radioactive materials other than microscopic - but still radiation. But so much is a paperwork headache.
But of all the reactions, it most energy dense (idk what?)
You don’t generate neutrons, you generate direct energy- that’s another tech.
He’s talking so niche right now and idk what quite he’s talking about - just said they’ll have ability to learn waht happens when you have high energy.
Avoid some of (idk)
W’ere in the crawl phase right now.
Final question: thanks for being here
Hypotehcal 3-4 years in the future, the whole country wants it - what are the bottlenecks?
Interconnection/plugging in
Precision manufacturing to mass deploy
Do any of you do public tours at your facilities?
Public tour is just him working on citing and permitting - it’s all him. He tries.
Aww
How much energy can we make in a single shot, and how much energy can you make in a day - that becomes the problem of how to handle all the flux.
So, that - like, whoever - if we talk about Q or who can make how much energy in a minute, hour, day? Can they do it sustainably over time
Best chance for tours - Seattle fusion week.
We don’t do public tours, but once a year we do Seattle fusion week. To learn a lot more, check that out.
The bottle neck woudl be tritium as I said. Metals, radiation resistant metals. W’er not always readily available with the small futon machines.
We need less than a giant (idk what)
And the fusion week - we’re small. Just 50 people. But happy to talk after, give you my card - and not have 300 peopel asking for a tour, I can give a few.
I asked him at the end and got his email. Let’s see if they follow through!!
Clean air task force wants to help fusion companies succeed - you guys are the cause for our snowplow.
Potential to provide clean, abundant energy… we need it and you guys are making it happen. Thank you for your work and we’re excited to see the progress.
Overall Event Review, Elaborated:
Venue (3/5) - it’s easy to get to, but it’s not too nice inside for this type of event. They had all the ugly blinds down and so you couldn’t even see the amazing views and it was so hot inside. Not eco-friendly at all. And super bright lights. But not terrible/bad at all. And i’ve been there for lunch-and-learns before - its great for that.
Food (2/5) - I’m knocking them down a lot of points, hard, for having these one-time use snacks galore (but also running out) cuase i’ve seen events where they partner with reuseable cups and stuff… I’m like, um.. why wasn’t this here? at the climate week event of all events?) And they ran out of food - which was healthy, but, not amazing. Just liek bagged low calorie popcorn and stuff. But - I also expected NO food - so I was surprised (and hungry) but it ran out. So. Lots of emotions here.
Speaker Content (4/5) - Pretty great!! I’d almost give it a 5/5 but the audio was not good - and the interviewer of the first one was stumbling and stuttering nonstop - and the energy was just a little low at this energy event. But I felt liek I learned a LOT for sure and got some new insights about the industry. The “workforce crisis” is ringing loud and clear across industries.
Networking (2/5) - Yeah I hardly said hello to a person or two - and you could have more. It definitely had a networking vibe. But also not huge efforts.
Likeliness to Return (5/5) - yeah this place hosts some interesting and relevant events all the time. Just think they shoudl think through the eco-ness of their office + products they’re giving away + waste they’re creating. It’s such an opportuntiy to change the “norm” and set the tone + lead.
Until next time, I wish you the motivation and success to search for opportunities around your area. Search and explore: Who is out there giving talks? There are new things happening all of the time.
Find relatable or interesting topics you like and check them out! Maybe even something hosted at a cool venue, if there’s no other reason to go. Let’s see what you can learn and discover not too far from home. 😊
