Fusion & Fission: Opposites Attract my Attention
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Disclaimer:
Everything below is a mix of what I observed and heard during the event. The goal isnāt to pinpoint "who exactly said what," but to share (usually) an outsider's view and overall perspective on these industries. Iām not here to act as a definitive firsthand sourceāreaders should do their own research. I hope this inspires you to attend events, explore new industries, and hear what leaders are presenting. These notes combine my observations with thoughts on how things could run smoother and how ideas connect (IMO). Iām not an expert, you know? Just hanging out in the room with them. Enjoy!Topics: Fusion Energy, Fission Energy, Energy Grids, Investments
Do you know the difference between fusion and fission? I think I do. :) Fusion = SUN.IF.O. right? just rearrange it. I NEED TO COPYRIGHT THAT BTW. Going in the glossary - Thatās cause lately Iām a lot of events about energy. But donāt worry - hardly anyone knows the difference, except energy experts/chemists/smart people - etc. but there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE. And one Iām kinda a huge fan of - the other, iām likeā¦ uhhhh??? umā¦ hm. well. idk enough - but I think I liek the other better. AND TODAY - there are two events - each one hour - each about each topic!!! So, letās see if they reinforce or sway my opinions. I love to learn more and see how it turns out.
Why Attend: Fusion and Fission are both strategies to create energy. Now that energy totally in high demand, and only getting stronger - how we gonna fuel the frenzy? By creating more energy. Nowā¦ iām a person who thinks that more energy technologies exist (or used to exist) and they were WIPED OUT!!! by some big players and companies and people about 100 years agoā¦ though the details about the tech still exists. haha. okayā¦ soā¦ go spend A LOT of time on twitter. Or as me. Youāll find all of this. And as you look into it more and more, youāre liek - okay, this doesnāt sound too crazy. THen you look around the world and just put it all togetherand youāre liek - woah. hahah. woah. SOā¦ letās learn more about energy in the modern day. Whatās going on in this world?
Overall Event Review: Venue (3/5), Food (2/5), Speaker Content (4/5), Networking (2/5), Likeliness to Return (5/5).. more below
Photo Collage & Commentary:
Notes on the Event
Nuclear in the Pacific Northwest and beyond - says the guy on the mic. Heās taking about this and works out of DC and he is local though.
THIS IS THE ONE/speech/part - (i think) MOSTLY ABOUT fission-style-of-energy.
Now heās introducing the people
The second guy he introduces, he keeps saying āumā in his introduction and his pace changes so it seems liek literally the first time he read it aloud. Lol - this guyās introduction. The first one he read more smoothly.
And then the third person read aloud he also stumbles on the introduction.
So, itās interesting to hear this hahaha. Itās not fun to be introduced in a lame way - which I only think of cause recently one of our politicians got excited verbally when he was introduced well, by memorization. - idk if you guys remember that, it was a few blogs ago, but he was like, āsee - now that is how you get introduced, by memorizationā - haha that stood out to me.
I think a balance is okay, too, now that I think of it. But, its interesting to think of all the perspectives involved.
This guy says - can everyone hear me? No..
Then they turn on the mic and then they say āyeahāThen he reintroduces himself cause his introduction wasnāt great. But then every time he moves, it has static on the audio.
Every time he talks there is static noise.
He said theyāre workign to meet target and goals for climate. Workign on electricity reliability. He worked as a nuclear engineer - but then thought policy was more fun and switched
Wore a few hats
Worked with the government
Oversaw market design. Thatās where he comes with his NGO hat.
Federal and state level. There is reality - idk what heās even saying.
As a society, as we approach the tech options, we want to see all the resources on teh grid and reach a clean energy future. Understand the appropriate innovations to be nuclear moving forward. There is a wide spread of movement at the federal and sate level.
Bipartisan. (and iām like, uh - i think that means like - universally everyone agrees its an issue - doesnāt matter your political party)
Not just in this state, they want to have more discussion about nuclear energy - what are the appropriate discussions
- his mic is really bad and distracting and he starts talking really slowly. And everyone laughs. Cause heās trying his best to not kick off the microphone. Itās so awkward and distracting lol
If we do move forward with nuclear generation across the usa, we shoudl do it effective, efficiently, and as safely as possible.
Now the next guy speaks - he turned the mic off when he received it and then kept taking. But he made a joke about how heās good at doing things again and again. Like he thinks the mic is on but itās not. He turned if off and joked that he turned if off then on again.
But it seemed he did off-on-off.
He says he sees familiar facesā¦ (but his mic legit isnāt on) - and no one is telling him.
And hieās just taking about his background. Workign in the department of commerce. He focuses among other things in his profolio
Advanced decisions
He also works on fusion - he said heāll be watching from the next session as well
Thatās interesting!! He is invested in both!?!?!?
One reason the department of commerce is interested in thisā¦ itās an energy policy issue. The historical role of nuclear in the northwest, you now - itās been a core part of our electricity window here for a long time.
Canāt give you exact years on that
Increasingly, importantly, continuously itās important in the tri-cities. Growing by leaps and bounds, at large because of nuclear.
Weāre trying to leverage some of the expertise and knowledge into advanced nuclear fuels and other areas. So, when we talk about about nuclear policy in the state of washingint, I thin it is important to keep in mind.
Clean electricity, clean energy - but also the important component of nuclear being a really important industry in the state of Washington and the growing/diversifying industry
Okay his speech makes me realize idk a lot about this industry. But thatās how i felt last time i learned about fission, too. and fusion of course. lol. and lots of this technical stuff :) and its fun to hear about though!! in general.
Now this guy does a local business - his mic also isnāt working.
Theyāre not for profit, it was formed in 1950ās for the purpose of serving utilities for the northwest. They have 29 public power utilities and they provide economy scale.
Develop generating resources where poorer communities and companies and people donāt want to take it on by thsemelvss
So they build and operate wind, solar, battery hydro, small hydro - best known for the nuclear energy facility with (number) of watts. idk what he said.
Weāve received several grants from teh state, department of commerce
Weāve go our fingerprints in about 40 charging stations with grants and charging there
Grants to explore microgrids
Developing a large solar project
A lot have been early utility scale deployments
Solar project was online in 2000. It is small but back then it was first of its kind.
They were so early on wind they had it shut down for environmental reasons, that tells you how early we are
Iām surprised things got more lenient? Right? More desperate for money? are more birds dying? Or were we overreacting before? idk.
Weāve been at the front of clean energy tech for decades.
What Iāll tell you is bad in 2019, we commissioned a study to look at: how do you make sure you have sufficient energy resources if you had time in the north west.
If you had resources that could be turned on when you need them to - like nuclear.
Developing new nuclear here in the state of Washington to help meet the needs here.
That launched us forward
Last partner annouced a bit partnership with local huge companies to work on making a local energy station.
The panelist are international focused, state policy, and deployment of tech - that was by design.
So, weāre hearing a lot of hypeā¦ we saw plants in Georgia, whatās going on in the industry. How different is it than before?
Thanks for that questions.
Can everyone hear me? Um. You have to go back to understand where we are now cause it really reflects what kind of moment nuclear energy is having not just in the USA, but every state is individual but its a policy discussion happening in various state legislatures.
Moving into late 2010ās we saw federal lever bipartisan interest. Advances in design, safefty, fuel, waste mitigation -
Subsequently, legislature helped to make these designs a reality
Since 2017, the divided administration is in office. Weāve seen new R&D first of a kind pilot demonstrations.
Help modernize industries to move forward with safe, affordable ā¦ (itās hard to even keep up with him)
With trump we see new interest in nuclear energy
At the federal level, when it comes to executive orders and comes to new nuclear energy developed in the usa and internationally
Trying to build new nuclear reactors in the most efficient ways possible. But having conversations with congress too, to move forward in a what that protects peopel from cost overrun, security issues, and other financial issues. This is super important, in parallel at state government. And regulated entities.
We have a concern of if we move forward with new generation, make sure we do it in a safe way if possible - then he says, Iām not sure if we talk about this later, but wanna talk about it now?
Then heās like uh, sure
So then he keeps taking about collaboritn with there states as well.
At the federal movement, state level, parallel movement working on supply chain, workforce, and understanding the nuclear projects are large and capital intensive. Regulated markets and entitiesā¦ (idk what heās saying)
Peopel are looking at opportunities to collaborate with other states.
Electrons donāt see state boundatries, so itās important for states to move forward nad produce new energy.
The concentrated benefits arenāt just one area - theyāre spread out. Thatās hwy theresā renewed interest - itās an economic driver for a lot of countries.
Now letās talk about Washington.
Director of emerging tech. What does the state look at?
He says, um, noā¦ heās not the director, he then mumbles and says he magically appears when heās wanted
this Emcee doesnāt know their roles. lol. but he mentioned earlier how they were selected on purpose. so. you know. w hen you play a lot of cards, you expose your thoguhts but then you also expose when you werenāt quite prepared. takes one to know one, i mean look at these blogs hahaha. idk is this fission or fusion?
The key reasons again, for Washington - I think going back and for those of you who donāt know. Those of you maybe do knowā¦ Washington had an interesting past with nuclear. What we call the āwhoopsā project, the former name of energy northwest many decades ago. Sorry to bring it up
Everyone laughs. I donāt know/get it.
And Iām putting part of our past here in Washington
Weāre nuclear 1.0 - the legacy, the whoops, the Washington public power supply system. Knowing that its whoops was the second largest municipal bond to fall.
We still pay for that to this day. It left a negative legacy.
So as weāre ending this nuclear 2.0, this new rennissance. Itās being driven by several factors, they tap about economic development. Letās talk about about this new wave of advanced nuclear is helping growth in the grid cities and in the west.
Weāre here to talk about fission and fusion is a big area of growth.
Everett, north Seattle, that regions. Thing like bill gates interest, itās becoming a huge area across the state.
The other is that the tech industry in teh northwest is critical. Therefore, we are willing ā idk what he says
Not just to meet our needs, but of course the broader economic engine here in the northwest.
But frankly looking where we are, to be 100% clean electricity by 2045ā¦ weāre seeing a lot of road blocks on other sources of clean energy. Wind, solar, more famous things. We have the tech, but in areas like transmission, storage, these key infrastructure and tech areas - itās not growing as fast as weād like.
- as weāre seeing low growth expandā¦ an incredible amount of demand for load growth here in Washington.
Central Washington has lots of interest in data centers.
Part of that will help the high tech industry. We need to fuel our overall clean energy economy
Lots of materials are energy intensive. So, weāre in this sorta nuclear 2.0 landscape. Where the state of Washington is in a place where most everyone, I think everyone agrees we need to have this conversation.
There are lots of peopel in different places on nuclear. But the need for the conversation is objectively very neeed at this point
RiGHT? I think so. But are we talking about fission or fusion š¤£. Not sure.
Solar, we got that very very early.
You might have illuded to this, but lemme ask āwhyā why are going to commercialization of (idk what he said) - why go after it now? - he says to a different speaker
You might look at us and say, āwe are the great experiment on this. We waled through all of this. We had the whoops of 70sā and 80s, then we turned away from nuclear and developed solar and windā¦ you know, our wind project, we put a heavy focus on it operating reliablyā¦ but by the nature of wind, the lowest months we have are January, December, and august.
- hottest and lowest days are accompanied with lowest chance of wind or sun
To meet people and meet the loads when we need, weāve found theyāre not the best solutions for that.
So, our utilities are the ones that started spurring us towards exploring this .
Our study pointed out the same thing. The challenge of renewables is that when you need the loads, based on real data from here - if he builds 100 mega wats with wind, what shoudl he plug into the model to assume he has on a peak day.
Assume you had 7 of them, thatās what youād put into the log. If you have something to operatee all the time, and itās clean, wow thatās a home run.
Thatās why itās a part of the least cost portfolio. We felt liek we had to push forward.
As the only operators of nuclear, thatās a lot of the āwhyā and it drove us to get serious about moving forward.
The first time we had utilities come and fund this was 2010. We spend the better part of that decade helping new scale small reactor tech. We started working with the Utah power system.
Then in 2020 when the fed government launched the reactor demonstration program, theyāll fund half of it - we ended up with CW - with terra power and x energy - so weāve been working on this now since 2018 but really serious since (idk what he said)
The emcee asks another question but Iām kinda zoning out - heās liek so quiet and heās just asking questions really lengthy. Itās like what is your question - no offense but Iām like - wiat , what? Hahah ?
One of hte challenges with new nuclearā¦ theyāre a proven tech overall, but these exact designs are new. Itās capital intensive for these first ones. We know theyāre going to be expensive.
So while we have a lot of utitilities to push and move this forward, itās a heavy lift to move ahead and take these risks for projects like this. Itās a real problem. Their structure and governenance isnāt set up for that kind of commitment.
Amerzin has a huge need for energy, but finding it expensive and difficult to meet a load with just a bunch of (idk) and batteries. THeyāre looking to scale up with clean energy.
None of us are going to be okay if we canāt access our cat videos when the wind isnāt blowing and the sun isnāt shining.
yeah. my roaring kitty videos!! if they come out again. come on ROARING KITTY :)
Youāre seenghtis across teh whole technology spectrum.
Youāre seeing site contracts for restart plants
Youāre seeing a lot of invent in new tech
Amaznis funding the pathway with cash. Its a multihindred dollar investment for hte next few years to drive it forward
multihundred? million? billion?? hundred thousand?
Fund everything to make it moving forwad
Also, a significant investment in X energy, the company weāre using - looking at key parts of the supply chain.
This is waht utility is not set up to do.
What else is unique - weāre not for profit, we serve utilities- why woudl we be doing this with amazon?
It allows us access to everything developed (idk what he said)
They want to see theyāre helping pave the way for access. Tehyāre coming along, taking the early risk, taking the high capital, getting this moving and getting utilities moving in.
It is why theyāre doing it, weāre doing it - and itās a huge win for all utilities in the state of Washington.
- hahah I like how he said that. I still donāt understand it enough - but it sounds interseting maybe. You know, letās see all the follow through.
The next speaker says, thanks for this and that - he was asked a question but I was typing.
The agreement with them and x energy and such - the product theyāre train to develop, a piece is finalizing design
This is an important lesson learned from the last few built in the USA - as we see, depending not he market youāre in, theres re different models that make sense depending on your geo-graphic model. (Btw Iām needing to step away one second)
Okay - nowā¦ back:
In terms of how Ai infrastructure and data centers are effecting the new business models, its depends on your geographic model. In (idk huh) weāre worried about near term marketing constraints to get access to points of interest, where data centers are sprung up. Its imopratn that due diligence is done - as they move forward with development, make sure the appropriate load is studied to make sure when potential contengencies (idk what he said)
Letās protect the customer when weāre trying to produce new generation within a state
This is an example of a market being responsible
If weāre in a regulated market like in the western or southeast of the usa - conscious of (idk what) - asset getting stranded, we want to make sure the appropriate due diligence is supported
Whether itās through Appa agreement, signed off by a series of co-ops. All interesting opportunities to derisk the project moving forward to make sure weāre protecting (idk what)
With new nuclear generation ā
Unproven,ā¦ no, NOT built projects, its not just hte risks but understanding where risk lies across the supply chain, construction, fuel generation, fabrication process, and also the clicensing process as well
These projects have long wait times. We need a lot of labor developed in parallel. Thatās why the states are worign with the government to make the approriapite conditions as necessary.
Pn time, on budget, and make sure theyāre at the most cost competitive price as well.
The mic is being so crazy and kept being wild sounding!!!
Itās so off-brand, too, that they have these water bottles here, btw for everyone to drink. The one-time use water bottles. here at this āclimate hubā.
Of anywhere to get a renewable/reuseable content ā youād think they have it here. Instead they just sort hte recycling and trash hahah. Omg. But duh - 90% of trash isnāt even kept in the USA - itās sent to other countries.
Anyway, just calling out the hypocrisy. Itād be trendsetting for them to have built htat partnership and put the money where the mouth is. but itās hard to think of it all.. but still. shoudl be standard for this building, right? start a culture, people. 101.
Okay - how is the state looking at - um, workign with these communities um what um education means. Um those types of issues from (_____ side, and then I may turn the question after you to the other guy as well -
Thats his question style hahah, btw. Thats how this emcee is asking questions!!
reply: okay to be clear, (he mumbles) ad then says, darlingā¦ citing of nuclear is largely a federal issue. In the state of Washington our energy council also has responsibly along that. For nuclear fission, any proposed product has to run through our energy asset. And largely work with federal entities. The other entity involvedā¦ well, nuclear is complicated - not a surprise. Other entities also, our department of health - which is sorta the designated angry by the nuclear regulitaory ā¦ idk
Our departments - idk what heās sayinā¦
Unwasted idk - idk what he said.
Responsibility around radioactive waste movement. A lot of different parties that around citing and probably hte key issue, again, whatās intersting about what energy northwest project isā¦ and I think to be clear, the proposed energy/ameryon x energy project - its being proposed and signed next to another generative station. So... on land. Itās immediately adjacent to the one existing large nuclear plant thatās been here since hte 70s.
So, in terms of citing, it is a different sorta ball game. Than trying to tap about citing brand new nuclear and brand new spaces here in teh state of Washington. You know, itās a lot of afferent opinions on that - in terms of engagingā¦ theater key factor again I know the trip cities is a n areas used to ,you no, broadly supports the nuclear industry in general and has for decades. The (idk) some project.
Itās important to understand whatās been proposed. You know, specific community - itās a key piece of this project in general. Itās important itās ongoing. Itās from a different broader policy question.
Trying to sight new nuclear
The audio is super loud though. It keeps suqeeling a bit. I need to plug my ears almost.
The girl sitting next to me said something to me, like a joke, and then walked out. but idk what she said.
Then came back to get her water bottle she forgot, then left. And the mics keep squealing.
There is a proposal to increase the power capacity of the existing station.
Iām like WOAH that sounds dangerous, right??? Letting more power come out of an old energy station?
He sys its being discussed. Thatās a lot of new electricity
Which Iām going to say it doesnāt alleviate the need for other spaces, itās a first step
Itās not minor incremental, weāre talking about a lot of new energy. Itās probably lokign forward one of the key questions for this state and citizens is this discussion of if we want to see nuclear in other places nad if weāre supportive of that.
But for the near term,itās different. Essentially growing an existing field if you will.
From a stakeholder, thatās a lot of what we do. We take this seriously. We want to make sure the communities engages.
This is home to the national lap, thousands of educated scientists, history of nuclear innovationā¦ people who understand and are educated - they are supportive and want it. mOst of the time theyāre kicking me in the rear end and saying, get it here faster.
- but we contine to tae that state wide and engaging this.
Decarbonization has changed the conversation.
Sometimes this stakeholder engagement in taking about nuclear, you remember the old animated grinch, the poor dog trying to pull the pull it up the hill.
But pretty soon it goes over the hill and then it falls down.
Decarbonization has led things to go so far so fast, certainly not us, but weāre trying to keep up.
Anyone serious about climate, truly decarbonizing, and wants to talk about science - theyāre interested cause they know how it can be successful.
I had the opportunity to be part of a round table a couple of months ago. If youād know, weāre not on track. Wāere one of the lowest developers of clean energy in the country. Even with these policies. Why are we offtrack and what do we need to do?
- I think i was at this event, taking notes there!One problem is that we have too many people in this sector that only accept what they accept to be 100% perfect solutions. Here we have this crisis, and weāre only accepting policies we think are 100% perfect, cause we donāt understand - so then weāre not making progress
We know we have to do this, we know we have to get there.
Weāve done a lot of engagement with tribes in teh areas.
Whatās fascinating two me is theyāre thinking about this far more comprehensive and sophisticated than many who say theyāre in this - a leader said,
To us, thereās nonsuch thing as clean energy - it all has upfront impact, all has impact to land while being used, it all has waste.
As operators of solar - my panes are failing, Iām not sure what to do with them. Thereās not place for me to dump or recycle them. My wind turbans, my batteries - they all have pros and cons. We have to get understanding, serious about decarbonizing hte system. Waht we think that matters to. We have to think about growth systems.
The tribes are not excited to cover their land with thousands of solar panels like any other solution.
We find them open to conversation.
ā I wonder if I was at his last event!??! I feel like he looks at me like he recognizes me a little hahaha omg. But now I realize idk which one theyāre tailing about - fission or fusion.
Classic. Classsiccccc hahaha
but i was thinking he seemed to know me and iām like - no way, is that guy/speaker from the other energy event - maybe even read my blog! thats why iād be familiar hahah.
I did a social media thing about it hardcore, cause I felt liek it was really inpactful and important for people to know more about.
so anway (if soā¦ hello - letās keep going.)
Cause one time recently I went to a speech about one of them and the whole time I thought it was thiā but then it was that!! Hahah omg. I wonder if I liked him at this other speech. Whatever he was talking about. It think so, but I canāt even tell now what is going on hahahaha.
Iām getting so thrown off tryin gto figure out fusion/fission suddenly and where he stands on all of this - and all this.
Butā¦ i think he stands in the REALITY of this all. lol. so, its like we can dream and hope for fusion and think these conspiracy theories - like i do. even though they may jsut be FACTS!
butstill, we have what we have and we have to work with it now - AND THEN MAKE THINGS better and greattttt :) so we will, world!!
Now thereās a girl asking a question from the crowd. Just interrupting it all! hahah.
Sheās asking something about climate and geo hazards.
One guys says; one advantage is it has to be designed to be resilient to anything. When you have significant weather events, power plants dontā get hit cause theyāre designed to be resilient.
The x energy tech, one things that attracted us to this and their tech is it uses a different type of fuel form.
Tri-fuel, itās been around a long time, they studied it well.
Itās encages with carbon graphite and it can not melt. the
Biggest worry is if it canāt say cool and melts, itād release things into the public - but we eliminated that
Earthquakes canāt hurt us if they could, if the fuel canāt melt.
Amazon also picked X energy, like us, cause of that case.
The other guy says - vesion will move toward if the appropriate due diligence is done. As an engineer, one fo ry well said, and I donāt have much to add other than the nuclear regulatory comms
ā I was typing but then had a glitch, so sorry. Hahah.
OMG this room is SO HOT in here too. This climate room has horrible cooling. š This climate hub is super hot in here. Is it just me? Iām like legit itās stuffy in here- and I love heat.
Probably itās me. hahah from all this overthinking (but one of hte speakers on stage started the talk saying he was feeling hot/stuffy, tooā¦ soā¦ its a few people) - but i did notice they have all their shades down which is a shame in htis amazing location and with so many visitorshaha but tehy cant keep it colollllll
the irony in this design and i mean. coudlnāt there be solutoins? Idk. i think soā¦ but the one-time-use water bottles just have me thinking they need more peopel like mein there hahah. challenign it. but, you know. blogs are plenty ;) and i want to see this succcceed and regenerative successes and solutions :)
iām legit so excited and hopeful for a better future - even cautiously optimistic about the presentā¦ though its really a lot going on all at once. but so many broken systems are being reworked. there are better ways to do so many htings and we can do it!
Not just decarbonizing the energy grid, but also (idk what he said)
Now thereās another question - he said he wants to talk about where we are on the cutting edge of this tech.
Then what about the nuclear scare of the 1970ās and the narrative I can tell to my friends and family. What can I take away to talk to people concerned about waste?
Great question, I get that a lot -
Help them understand that everything has its waste. So teh waste of coal and natural gas has been deemed unacceptable, help them undrsdtand that
We understand nuclear very well, how to store it safely. I tās not a tech issue at all.
We donāt have a depository in teh USA for it. But we will get there. We know how to store it in the meantime safety
We have solutions far more for that.
The other thing is that in this country, we need o spend more time tailing about recycling energy
There is a lot of energy left here - so why bury it hte way it is.
If youāve got a battery at 80% capacity. Why throw it away, why not reuse and reporupse it. Wāere workign for federal vunding - maybe. Acompany has a viable solution to recycle and use renewable fuel. When theyāre done recycling the fuel, tehyāre down to 4% - which has a much lweord year to background level. The rest is repurposed for commercial bviable purposes.
i think this is a really fair point!!!!! for sure
We know how to do this, we have the solutions - we just have to look from a scientific standpoint.
If you had to stand up to this with no shield or anythingā¦i we store in concrete paths, they can withstand a 747 and be fine. THeyād be fine to withstand an earthquakeā¦ even if they fall over.
wowā¦ idk like thats hard to prove and sayā¦ you now. and i still am like - dude, do we need to add more? butttt still i liked this comment and convincing. but still iām not 100% sold on bjuilding more nuclear - butttt i get that also we need solutoins, not everything is working - and like also we have bills to pay and things to get rid of!!! ahh. its like legit complicated for sure.
so. idk the solution YET - but OF COURSE SOME THINGS LIKE USING THE BATTERIES TO THEIR FULL LIFE, like even basic lifestyle changes of obviousness for corporations and just things to use less money, electricity, waste. idk.
I just think we need HUGE solutions.
I say all the time, if Iām going to do this with my whole life, and leave my kids behind, Iād let them stand by those casts. Iād go let them hug that cast.
LOL. wow.
One key benefit is the fact theyāre intended bro be built off site, brogue him by truck or rail, theta ite. But at the end of its lifetime, and the reverse its true. When you hire a module unit, it could be hypothetically left.
ā¦ he grew up with the ghost of whoops sere fos, the big sheep of a nuclear cooling tower that was there.
The small infrastructure hopefully wonāt have those ghosts hanging around
Legit I laughed at that comment.
And apologies to jump in on something. It was trojan nuclear power, the portaldn - not usā¦ but there is an important point in learning. That plant was built, operating well. The major piece of equipment had cracks.
It would have cost 25M, but it was too expensive
They were scared of nuclear - but what if we had that 11,000 megawats of clean power in this region. But we shut it down.
So, again, I think we have to pick lessons learned like that to make better decisions for the future today. Make sure we doing them from the scientific perspective.
Fusion Energy
25 expertise in energy and law. Commitment to all possible solutions energy
But the audio sounds terrible and then the other speakers are in teh back of the room being so loud in the back of the room, the previous speakers are so loud int eh bacl of the room.
even the ones I was semi fans of, i keep looking at them, like - yoooo we hear you perfectly, hush - and go over into the other roommmm - but my ālooksā arenāt working/telepathing properly hahaha.
Okay - so - now theyāre talking about thisā¦
Okay - he sys itās his first time here and he says he wants to count his lucky stars. Fusion is the power of hte sun, itās a step forward with humanityās relationship with energy.
whaatttt - i didnāt know this!
Lately iām such a fangirl of hte sun.
the more I learn of it, iām lke - what the heck, its been here all alogn - and older civilizations used to worship it - me too, at least a bit!! the sun is awesome, turns out - even more than we realized (and now were just use screens all day and donāt hardly spend much time outside or its way more inconvenientā¦ how coincidential for pharmaseutical companies nad all their investments and diverse invesementss and portfolios and companies that profit off of us on screens. omg and meee with this website
- hahaha GO TAKE A BREAK AND GO OUTSIDE -
me tooā¦ lemme finish this tomorrow. or even the day after if i lose track of things, in a good way. I must - for the PROOF OF THIS!!!!!!!!!! :)
OKAY - back.. many days later. Cause now Iām 2.5 blogs behind. Letās finish this!
Itās an easy comparison to just put a star on yourselfā¦but it undersells waht your companies are doing.
Temperature, pressure, and confinentmyn time.
At a stellar scale, the pressure needed isnāt (idk what heās saying)
Finding the combinations of these factors on earth isnāt easy.
This guyās intro speech is hard to keep up with, with these loud guys in teh back.
and āthese loud guysā are the ones who just gave the speeches a second ago - rudeeeeeāā-
He says- the cool thing about this, not just myself as a fusion enthusiast. Not just an academo journalist that canāt read saying it. Itās (idk_)
He said the fusion industry in general has raised more than 8B in capital since 2020. As a result of the adgnvement of the tech that makes this not only scientifically feasible, but also cconomically feasible.
Itās clear that investors must see this has icnredlbe pathways to commercialization. Letās hear the story from the lan to the substation.
Without further ado, letās turn to the panelists
One guy introduces himself and how heās on the director of affaris or something. Heās a nuclear pharmacist- while he was in pharmacy school he didnt know -b theās making radioactive materials and turning them into nuclear medicine
- yo but today I saw something talking about how dandelions are proven to cure colon cancer in like 48 hours - so letās fact check both of these at the same times.
Some states that have too small populations to support capital expenses (idk)
He got interested cause itās the holy grail.. hey this is pretty cool.
They needed someone who knows how to license. And not a lot do - so thats how I got involved.
Iām a unicorn and the regulatory person and Iām happy to answer those questions. But Iām not a physiscits. (Iām hungry, I wanna go get more snacks - Iāll be right back -b ut he says there are more fusion companies in the USA than any country - and there are over 20 here in teh USAā¦ lol okay wait iāll go in a bit). They want to put megawatts on the grid.
But weāre making kilowatts of power, that enables mobile devices - for spec, sattelites, underwaterā¦ maybe in an mergency to power a hospital . The general pricnipals are the same as my colleagues.
A guy says this mic may be safer. Heās head of communication at the energy - heās been doing this for a long time.
They both work with particle accelerators
He used to work at the national lab at Stanford
A woman finally goes and asks the guys int eh back to stop tailking so loud int eh bac. Iām glad she did - cause they were legit loud and weāre 15 minutes into it = but theyāre still talking in the back and you can hear it.
I gave them the stink eye liek 4 or 5 times - like - you guys - we can hear you perfectly - zip it! but yeah - after she talked to them they just moved into a hallway and it was still sorta easy to hear them but better.
On stage they say itās fun and cool to see this take shape. So, we spun out of the university here, two professors workign - we even used to have a nuclear engineering department that was closed up. They were former nuclear engineering professors, one left, one stayed - nad then he liked being a professor, and now heās part time with us.
He said, as a scientist, he loves to explain the scinent. iT was a pre-compact form. IT came out of a program where ether looked and said, they put a lot of money and resources into architecture and that device.
Now the guy talking finally is able to introduce himself - he says itās actively being permitted as we speak. They want it here by the end of 2028. Fusion power has significant benefits to solve climate challenges we see. In the natural resources and carbon space.
We need to shift our mindset to think less about theoretical, instead how to do we scale mass deployment righ now as we scale fusion power.
Great - thank you, says the host.
Now letās start with the big picture. One things that is exciting is that its cool. (Lemma go get some racers brb)
What is the need for fusion power - how does it fit in?
Ohhh all of the sNacks are gone?!!?!? Lame. At least I had a few.
Clearly, we dontā have enough energy and weāre getting to the point as a society to start feeling the pain of that
Lol are we going to be like Tehran!?!?
Some of the things, the biggest polluter in the world is the US army. Al to of diesel goes into airplanes nad tanks.
You can decarbonize some of that, but mobile versions would be amazing too.
So true!!!
Physics geek is the most energy you can get per unit mass.
The universe gets it energy from stars.
On earth, the whole thing is dealing with hte nuclear force, the reasons they have the power - the nuclear versus the (idk what he said)
Thats how you get chemical energy
The nuclear force is so much stronger than the bonding force of electrons, then you can get so much more per mass.
To physics nerd, itās the ultimate energy source. We know itās out there, we know the physics is real. Itsā abundant in the universe
Itās just a tech problem.
But how do we harness it, build something that takes advantage of it. Itās been really hard - weāve been workign on it. It comes down to getting it super hot and dense and keep it around for a long time. With compression and the right climate
Each has different physics tasks to those things. But what we have in common is the bigger approaches that emphasize confinement - putting big magnets around itā¦ that turns out to be very hard to do, even when its a very diffuse plasma thatās less than thin air.
On the there ends the compression route in whatever way you want, the laser one. Shine a whole lot of lasers on a tiny target, compress it, as dense as possible - lasts a nanosecond, but you can get energy out of it.
All of us have things in between and are trying to get things that run.
Some things last an instant, we want to do it over and over. And there is some confinement to it.
He says, yes! Spot on, for us, weār elooking for pulsing together plasma icicycle atoms, like 1000 a second over and over and over.
Practical applications - the ability to ramp up or ramp down
Lots of applications for an energy market
Weāre not building water to make steam (idk what heās talking about)
Wāere using direct electricity to capture.
Drive, take the foot off hte gas, recharge the battery. Same idea -
Itās hard to keep up with the way he talks.
He says you can do the next to any large load. ā¦ for us, its climate, using clean/reliable energy sources.
And youāre creating a power solution that is incredible small. 30% clean energy growth demand over the next 10 years. Up to 100% growthā¦ then factoring in Ai and everything.
Having something small and dispatchable animates us. Itās what weāre looking for.
A girl im the audience suddenly interrupts - I NEED THE BIGGER PICTURE - WHERE AER WE WITH FUSION - she says she doesntā have a sense of if weāre getting the energy in weāre putting out
The host says - Iām glad you said that, it was my next point
He said weāre getting 4 times the energy out weāre putting in. And 2025 may be the biggest capital raise so far.
What is the biggest milestone that situates where fusion is? Weāre on the right path? From your perspective or other companies?
One guy says: me first?? Your question is legitā¦ the joke is that weāre 20 years away and always will be. So what have we done that shows weāre not there. There are intersteding things happening.
Another company is building something, when they turn it on, we see how well it works.
The other thing is that 50 companies are all trying to do this, weāre all trying to do this different ways.
No one has a slam dunk, everyone is away from the net
No one thing has changed everything for everyone
Tech has grown, ai helpsā¦ but no one knows
But one place and a place that was not built to be a pwoerplant, its not the way you want or mean to design a power plantā¦
We have a little ways to go. There is a lot to be excited about. We have tons of progress. Thereās no sure thing.
This guyās mic is so bad - omg and now a girlsā phone goes off. The air conditioner here is so loud too -
He says theyāre making machines nd they think they can demonstrate electric with their machines by the end of this year. Theyāve completed permitting processes. With zero public companies. So we can move forward security gall the work we need to put power on teh grid by 2028. Every indication in their company is that theyāre meet that milestone
She interrupts agian - āI think itās exciting - but youāre going to be using more energy than you generate.
Thatās what weāre showing this year. Positive electrify from fusion
She says, ohhh okay -
He says, yeah I completely agree 75 cmopnies around the globe are trying to make it happen. The amount of investment and sophistication globally, weāve never seen this. It brings great hope.
SO letās move to commercialization aspects. What kind of financing do we need to get to that Eureka moment - and deployed commercial industry?
Different concepts, designs, and capital costs - where do you see the monetary pathway from now to the first commercial device planned to put into service?
How will it become nearningful to amerca and the global energy systems
One guys said theyāre almost totally VC based, a little governmental funding - some he canāt talk about because of FCC rules, that kinda stuff. But for us, fi you can build a small fusion device nad its essential a particle accelerator, then youāre really entering a mass manufacturing model.
SO for us to upscale, weāre looking to find advance manufacturing. You need machinists. You canāt buy the parts off hte shelf, most you got to make. It requires a technical workforce. Its a lot of money to set up the machining systems
Dude so true!!!
There are a lot of resources in china and Russia trying to do the same thing. Whichever figures out the right recipe nad physics ,they wonāt be able to crank these machines out quick enough.
We need the plasma physicist, but also how do you set this up and get these machines out in a high quality manner
G0ood point.
We often talk itās not a physics problem, itās a manufacturing problem to get commercial fusion power on this grid.
woahhhhh
Just an example, the machine weāre building now, it takes bout 12,000 (idk what) - each is 4ft by 4ft. Weāre building about 10% of those right now here in Washington, the rest weāre sourcing all around the globe. But we know with fusion and other clean techā¦ once there is demonstration, commercial pathway,ā¦ the race will be on to buy up that supply chain. We saw wind, solar, EV, batteryā¦ whermanufacturing goes offshore.
Manufacting is less predictable.
So we think about that, how do we build up the fusion workforce we will need? Frankly 95% of hte roles arenāt wearing lab coats
Weāre building a lot. So how do ew build out these services? We need manufacturing. All of that work to commercialize and scale.
Our longterm goal is to roll off a fusion machine off our line every single day.
We have to invest now, not 5 or 10 years from now, or weāll lose the race.
Weāre encouraging our partners to build it out, here, now.
SO, itās moving out of the lab but there is still science to be done.
I disagree that the science is settled and on we can go to scaling. I donāt think thats true
- this other guys says lol!
Stop worign on just science and build plants? No.
But how much it will cost? That denpends on what youāre building.
Everything will cost more than if you can do it with smaller capactitors.
Weāre getting clarity on things until we advance them.
The liquid metals, the blankets, the thingsā it all soundsnice, like what youād put in a kids bedroom. But itās a million degrees, it melts everything. Thatās a problem for maintenance.
And so those things are really hard and weāve honestly not put much investment into them cause weāve focus so much on plasma physics. I think things are in a good place and weāve got a little further to go.
Now they say, letās zoom into the PNW. Itās clear the fusion hub has begun to emerge. What makes this a good place to build an innovative company, like yours are.
What does this city need to do as we move towards commercialization.
Well, Seattle is tech, the envornment, aerospace, all these things that fit into fusion. So, weāve got the workforce, funding environmentā¦ all that stuff.
Spot on, and to double down, weāre in an old Boeing facility. We can hire technicians readily available. Weāve got the university nearby as a research hub. And then weāve got interest and mandates for an energy provider.
Itās been helpful.
The guys now says heās born and raised here, if itās not these big companies, its other companies. Itās a place where innovation happens. The cross of innovation and environment.
Space tech and our founders all come from that approach.
Nowā¦ he says, say something nice about each other hahah. How do your companies work together and collaborate - how does this advance your cause?
He says itās easy to say nice things bout them. First - everyone in fusion is purpose driven. Weāre here cause we want to make a difference.
Unlike nuclear medicine, which you think would be the same goal - cancer patients
You have companies fighting over revenues and sharesā itwawsnāt always patient focused, it was making shareholders happy.
But with this, we celabrate each other successes - whether its labs with lasers, or cool magnet systems- a win for any one fusion company validates what weāre all after
One single guy in the audience cheers big
Then they said its on lobbiyng efforts, and its easy as a citizen of the earth.
And weāre all proud of this hub. Weāre kinda the cowboys? Each one of our companies are trying something different.
For fusion weāre All in it for the same needs.
There is so much clean energy need, demand, and potential. Whether any of these companies rise or fall, we want thepower as quickly as possible to solve our problems from every single day.
Itās so true in the partnership and in the policy spaces as well.
We had a bill in th e legislature in Olympia just a couple of months ago - and one of the things I admire about our state legislature, itās bipartisan. Its unanimous. Iāve seen it in our community.
Hundreds of community members from all walks of life, they want this tech to succeed. The ethos is among our employees, leaders, peopel want it to succeed. So we celebrate each others successes.
There are definitely places we all benefit up together. Its helpful together, and a problem is that fusion and fission sound too similar
So the ability to educate stakeholders, it takes time for people to understand it. Itās something we all agree on.
A little competition is okay - game on. Letās go. Itās a friendly competition.
Add one more thingā¦
Washington state is also ideal for a couple reasons:
Bipartisan support in a lot of these policies. Whether its democrats or republican - we have a lot of support in the legislature (and as a radiation person dalig with the department of health) - not every state has a pro fusion focus,.
Some are scared cause they dontā have fusion companies
But weāre trying to make this a smart path forward, with eh right framework, to regulate it.
Folks in our state have been fantastic partners in this.
Washington is special when you talk to other states and countries,.
You donāt have to worry about the next election to think if you have policy to succeed.
Okay - letās say you had a magic wand and got a policy to help you at state or national level, waht would it be:
First offer - one was offered to do federal with private industry, only paid predertimened amounts.
Reach without having ID share, cost share.. itās a small program - we got 5M - 300M in funding isnāt a ton. Iād love to see that bigger.
Itās a really good way to fund it without tax payers paying the bill.
One guy. Says he has two:
Fusion - back to manufacturing, we need gov to recognize the buildout of manufacturing services. Build out workforce training for precision manufacturing.
- globally, we need interconnection plugging it into the grid
The ability to hook a power plant into a community. 8-12 years to get power onto grid for most placesā¦ but the interaconnection is a big problem.
Get and learn about the interconnection challenge - learn about it. The goals we wantā¦ how can we move the needle?
- donāt just sit around waiting to plug it in
Lol this microphone keeps sounding like someone blowing hteir noseeee
Last - wish the DOE could - idk what they said - tridium? A DT reaction? Idk what? To generate helium? We need tritium - a radioactive form of hydrogen.
Anything thatās not a nuclear warhead - but 100% of tridium is sequestered by gov for weapons. Canadians use a fission power plant with a waste stream - but they sell their waste for 35k/gram to the USA - without it the devices donāt work.
SO Iād like a domestic supply of tritium
How can someone who is excited about it and believes in it, but not in the industry, how can they make a difference? What woudl you tell someone in the room to help?
Um, well first, 7/10 people donāt understand what it is - - so getting the word out.
We usually avoid words like nuclear cause it has a bad connotation - for Chernobyl, the three mile islandā¦ fusion is a nuclear process - completely different risk. Combining.
If our device fails, a machine runs off. there is no runaway out of control.
Itās why weāre being regulated completely different.
What would be really helpful is learning all you can, helping get the word out.
People anti-nuclear shoudl be pro fusion. It can provide more - there is more energy in hydrogen than uranium
Also itās the biggest waste product from a fission power source and turn it into reusable. For me, itād be learning and sharing.
Media and communication - thereās an adueince so excited. Hyperbolically shouting from roofs. Then some there like - youāve been saying this forever, when is it going to be here?
And the truth is somewhere in between. Itās not a silver bullet, not holy grail . I hope there is a revolution. I wish people could be excited, and then be properly excited. Not feeling disappointment.
And less people who can roll their eyes.
Want a more rational in the middle convo more often.
ā¦ I had to do something
He said - when you first develop a vaccine you need a lot of money.
But our models suggest we are beyond if not competitive (idk what heās tailking about)
For our company, we have crawl/walk/run. Most are doing reactions that doesnāt deal with radioactive materials other than microscopic - but still radiation. But so much is a paperwork headache.
But of all the reactions, it most energy dense (idk what?)
You donāt generate neutrons, you generate direct energy- thatās another tech.
Heās talking so niche right now and idk what quite heās talking about - just said theyāll have ability to learn waht happens when you have high energy.
Avoid some of (idk)
Wāere in the crawl phase right now.
Final question: thanks for being here
Hypotehcal 3-4 years in the future, the whole country wants it - what are the bottlenecks?
Interconnection/plugging in
Precision manufacturing to mass deploy
Do any of you do public tours at your facilities?
Public tour is just him working on citing and permitting - itās all him. He tries.
Aww
How much energy can we make in a single shot, and how much energy can you make in a day - that becomes the problem of how to handle all the flux.
So, that - like, whoever - if we talk about Q or who can make how much energy in a minute, hour, day? Can they do it sustainably over time
Best chance for tours - Seattle fusion week.
We donāt do public tours, but once a year we do Seattle fusion week. To learn a lot more, check that out.
The bottle neck woudl be tritium as I said. Metals, radiation resistant metals. Wāer not always readily available with the small futon machines.
We need less than a giant (idk what)
And the fusion week - weāre small. Just 50 people. But happy to talk after, give you my card - and not have 300 peopel asking for a tour, I can give a few.
I asked him at the end and got his email. Letās see if they follow through!!
Clean air task force wants to help fusion companies succeed - you guys are the cause for our snowplow.
Potential to provide clean, abundant energyā¦ we need it and you guys are making it happen. Thank you for your work and weāre excited to see the progress.
Overall Event Review, Elaborated:
Venue (3/5) - itās easy to get to, but itās not too nice inside for this type of event. They had all the ugly blinds down and so you couldnāt even see the amazing views and it was so hot inside. Not eco-friendly at all. And super bright lights. But not terrible/bad at all. And iāve been there for lunch-and-learns before - its great for that.
Food (2/5) - Iām knocking them down a lot of points, hard, for having these one-time use snacks galore (but also running out) cuase iāve seen events where they partner with reuseable cups and stuffā¦ Iām like, um.. why wasnāt this here? at the climate week event of all events?) And they ran out of food - which was healthy, but, not amazing. Just liek bagged low calorie popcorn and stuff. But - I also expected NO food - so I was surprised (and hungry) but it ran out. So. Lots of emotions here.
Speaker Content (4/5) - Pretty great!! Iād almost give it a 5/5 but the audio was not good - and the interviewer of the first one was stumbling and stuttering nonstop - and the energy was just a little low at this energy event. But I felt liek I learned a LOT for sure and got some new insights about the industry. The āworkforce crisisā is ringing loud and clear across industries.
Networking (2/5) - Yeah I hardly said hello to a person or two - and you could have more. It definitely had a networking vibe. But also not huge efforts.
Likeliness to Return (5/5) - yeah this place hosts some interesting and relevant events all the time. Just think they shoudl think through the eco-ness of their office + products theyāre giving away + waste theyāre creating. Itās such an opportuntiy to change the ānormā and set the tone + lead.
Until next time, I wish you the motivation and success to search for opportunities around your area. Search and explore: Who is out there giving talks? There are new things happening all of the time.
Find relatable or interesting topics you like and check them out! Maybe even something hosted at a cool venue, if thereās no other reason to go. Letās see what you can learn and discover not too far from home. š
